Jerilee, thanks for your comment and for sharing your take on the Twilight books. Though I have not read her, I have no doubt that Stephanie Meyer is a skillful writer. After all, she has achieved huge success among a much bigger group of readers than her original target audience. In today’s publishing market, that is a remarkable achievement.

My hub was not really a review of the Twilight movies, so much as a commentary on American sexual mores. Maybe it’s not possible “for most men and most women to view love in the same context”, but it seems to me that a romantic relationship can’t really be satisfying unless the two people involved do share a context.

My frame of reference is Rand’s view of romance. While I recognize that most men (or women) are not capable of delivering a ten page philosophical diatribe immediately prior to, during, and after sex, there has got to be some sort of middle ground where ordinary people can meet.

Most men are not Cyrano de Bergerac and can’t compose poetry off the cuff in middle of a sword fight, but in my experience they are not nearly as inarticulate as American women seem to believe them to be.

I haven’t read or watched, but this hub has filled me in with all that I need to know – thanks.

Gramarye, thanks! Glad you got the information you needed.

A very interesting read Aya 🙂 I have never been into vampires in anyway shape or form – I guess I must project onto other things, lol. The only vampire film that ever really intrigued me was “The Hunger” that had David Bowie in it – it broke down boundaries around sexuality and asked philosophical questions about how long we’d really want to live for.

I can see why vampire mythology is attractive to so many people – you point out some very good reasoning as to why this might be the case.

Susana, thanks! I haven’t seen the “The Hunger”, but your description makes it sound like something I might enjoy.

Hi Aya – as always, a wonderfully written hub and if I’d read it before I read the series, maybe I would have been just a wee bit dissuaded, However, a teenage daughter and with all of us greedily devouring every book that comes into the house – I’m glad I did. I’ve put off watching the movies because right now, this whole fairytale like romance is so vivid the way I’ve imagined it.

Why do most women like fairytale romances? I think it goes beyond all the fairytale stories we were fed with, the Mills and Boon, the soppy love songs. Somewhere inside, is every woman’s ideal man and while men don’t really fall in line with this image we carry inside, we keep the ideal alive in our minds and hearts with fare like this. And of course, the ‘bad’ man who changes thanks to the woman is even better! Somehow makes us feel all powerful I think. This is not to say that we are not happy – we could be as happy as can be and yet feel the need for these delicious escapades!

A few grow out of these dreams. They are the wise, mature souls who see and think logically – and hats off to them! However, it’s also nice to feel that the rest of us are pretty happy escaping to the fairytale corners of our mind through the pages of our book or a movie 🙂

Shalini, it’s good to have fairy tales and dreams and fantasies and ideals that are bigger than life. I don’t want to stomp on that at all. I have fantasies, too, and I cherish and nurture them.

The points I was trying to make are these:

1) While all women may have fantasies about romance, not all women share the same fantasy. It depends to some extent on your experiences. Women who are happily married and have all their basic needs met may fantasize about a man who can hold back. Women who are not so lucky fantasize about a man who can’t wait. It’s really quite logical, if you think about it.

2) There IS something wrong if the male and female heterosexual ideals are greatly at variance. This is completely different from saying that we as individuals fall short of our ideals. For instance, avid Ayn Rand fans, if they are female, might fantasize about Howard Roark or John Galt or Francisco D’Anconia. It goes without saying that most men fall short of that. Avid male Rand fans may fantasize about Dagny Taggart. Most women fall short of that. But there is something definitely wrong if most women fantasize about an effeminate prince charming who does not act on his sexual desires, while most men fantasize about a racy woman. Their actual, real life romances are bound to be disappointing.

And anyway, no two people really fantasize about exactly the same thing, do they?

hello aya. have not been on for awhile and i am teribly sorry abou that.

my duaghters are all about twilight. its the only thing that matters to them. the last book in particuar was a little to inaproropraite for a 6th grader. i have read all of the books and only enjoyed two of them. the first movie was not very good nor the second oe. of cource my daughters loved every second of it and bought it on DVD. i am not going to allow my daughters to see the last movie, more because it is very inapropriate. they will probualy not like my desicion but, a parent is the head ruler of the house, no mater what happends

Crazy888, good to hear from you again. As a parent of a sixth grader, you certainly have the right to make that decision. However, be aware that as soon as the video comes out, they can always watch it at a friend’s house.

My daughter enjoyed the two Twilight movies we saw more than I did, but she’s not really a big fan of it, either. She thought the second movie was better than the first. When I scoffed at the idea that marriage would somehow legitimize blood sucking, she replied quite coolly: “Well, they’re old enough to get married.” I had to agree with her there. ;->

Aya, you’re so wonderful. It’s these personal, honest Hubs of yours that I appreciate so much. Thank you for this insight into the influence and role of vampires (and telling us about some vampires we may not be so familiar with. From the title, I was expecting a Hub about how people have a problem with the obsessive love shared between the characters of “Twilight”, but I see it’s much more 🙂

Glassvisage, good to hear from you! I always enjoy your comments, as you are able to see beneath the surface.

thanks for the advice aya. I know i cant hide the innapropraite stuff from her forever but i think i should wait nutil she is more mature, dont you?

Crazy888, I agree that it is your prerogative as a parent to monitor your children’s viewing. However, if the movie you don’t want your daughters to see has not yet come out, maybe you should wait until it does and view it yourself before making up your mind.

thanks for the tip

Crazy888, no problem.

I’d hate to think my lady couldn’t be up front with me. I’m sure up front with her. 😉

Ixxy, I hope your lady feels free to be as up front with you as you are with her.;->

I read the Twilight books. I wrote a hub about them. Book #4 was my least favorite. I watched the first movie, it was dull so I passed on the rest. I think I remember Dark Shadows as a young kid, but I think I’m blocking it since it probably scared the life out of me. Haha! I intend to see the movie because Johnny Depp will be starring in it. No other reason. Just to see Johnny. 🙂

I loved Dark Shadows when I was a kid! We would troop home from school, get a snack and pile in front of the tv–

Audrey, me, too! It was the best thing on at the time!

Sunshine625, I just now read your comment. Yes, DS was scary back then! Gave me nightmares!

Sunshine625, I just now read your comment. Yes, DS was scary back then! Gave me nightmares!

I found your hub via Pinterest, and just wanted to add my observations of Twilight. Honestly, I really did not have an interest to read it initially, but I only did because everyone was reading it a few years ago, and I sort of need to be in the know about books to some extent. Many people would ask me my opinions about Twilight, and I thought the best way to explain it to people would be by reading the books.

There was no crazed teenage sex in the Twilight series, well at least not until Bella and Edward get married, but there were some odd masochist aspects to it. For instance, Bella can be intelligent when she applied herself, she was good with chemistry, but early on in the book it seems her obsession becomes Edward specific. There are many other boys who like her because she is new to Forks, and thus mysterious, but she only has eyes for Edward.

At first she thinks he is ignoring her, but eventually she realizes he tried to keep his distance because he is overly attracted to the scent of her blood, and perplexed because he mind is the only one he cannot read, which is one of his vampire gifts.

Eventually Edward and Bella become a couple and go to prom together, which I guess plays into the fantasy of a lot of women who wish they could have taken their dream date to the prom. I think some women marry men that are different than their ideal, and I am not saying Stephanie Meyer did that per se, but perhaps she did because she felt she could not show the novel to her husband at first. Edward likes to play classical music and he reads the classics, and some men find that foo foo, and I think what is wildly popular about Edward is he is a guy that is everything the typical red blooded American male is not. Whereas many men would prefer to go off roading or watching the football game, Edward is the type of guy that would write you a love letter and take you to watch the ballet.

Okay I do not completely relate to this, but I kind of see the appeal because I once dated a guy who just refused to ever write a romancy type love letter, but then I realized I would only want someone to write a letter like that if it were genuine. However, there is a Sex and the City episode that sort of deals with this phenomenon about how culturally American men really do not do the ubber romantic thing, such as taking a woman to the Opera and composing love songs for her. Not that there are not American men like that, but I think this novel taps into the fixation many American women have long had with the romantic type of men of years ago, or maybe the type of man who goes to operas and ballets in a sophisticated European city. It is pure fantasy, and I have talked to a lot of women whose husbands sort of poke fun at their chick flick fantasies, but the women also do not want to partake in the men’s favorite shows. This is not with everyone to be honest, but I have just seen this is in some relationships, but is why I am holding out for a person I have much more in common with. I have also seen some relationships break up over differences like this.

What I find creepy about the series is the masochist undercurrent. Edward always shows up when Bella is in mortal danger, and thus she comes to associate he with this. In the second book New Moon Edward’s family throws Bella a party for her eighteenth birthday, and she accidentally cuts her finger on a piece of glass and it bleeds. Edward’s adopted brother Jasper tries to attack her, and has to be held off by Edward and Doctor Carlisle, their adopted father. Carlisle is the only one who can handle the scent of Bella’s blood because he works as a doctor, and he is one of those vampires who is 100% disciplined.

Anyway, Edward comes to Bella the next day and tells her he needs to leave, and she is completely devastated. Thus begins a series of events when Bella begins acting like a jilted woman, and putting herself in danger hoping it will bring Edward back.

I was completely turned off by the masochist aspect of New Moon, and eventually Bella dives off a cliff into the Pacific Ocean, which brings Edward back because this time she nearly drowns. The entire concept behind these novels is about how women want to secretly be rescued, and I really just cannot identify with it. I think you might be right about people lacking something in their love life if they need to find it in a book. I am not saying that is the only reason people read this book, but it makes me wonder.

Aya Katz 2 years ago from The OzarksHub Author

SweetiePie, I can see why the masochistic element in Twilight could be disturbing. To me, it is more annoying than disturbing, because Bella is so self-involved that she doesn’t seem to realize there are other dramatic things going on in the world, besides the drama she creates artificially by endangering her own life.

I think that to a lot of American women, the idea that a man would “restrain himself” and avoid indulging his appetites is alluring because they have never encountered men who were self-restrained around them. The idea that men don’t like poetry or art is also a weird American assumption. If you talk to real men, even real American men, you will find that many do read poetry and enjoy art and are just as artistic as the average woman. But I suppose the real problem is that they show this aspect of their personality only to the women they are not trying to get into bed with. It’s as if the American culture doesn’t allow sex and intellectual pursuits to mix, so that the women who are getting the sex are not getting to see that their men have minds, too. So they end up longing for “effeminate” men, whether they realize it or not.

SweetiePie 2 years ago from Southern California, USALevel 2 Commenter

Well I grew up in a very populated state with lots of men, and there is definitely a large group who are not into ballet, theater, and going to art museum. A man showing a dislike for art and ballet often happens in a marriages, not just when the guy is wanting something on the side.

Of course you have the artistic types who are, but there are a lot of guys who would rather watch football or play xbox. There are men who can inhabit both worlds, but they are not the largest segment of the population. They poke fun at women and their Twilight fantasy type movies, but the women also poke fun at their ubber guy shows and sports fixes. Of course now there are more women who are getting into sports, and things are changing in this regard. Also, there have always been men who like art, but a lot of mainstream guys I talk to do not like the fantasy ideas that women long for with art. Also, I think being attracted to or longing more effeminate type of man is not always a bad thing, if that is what a woman truly wants. The problem is when women want guys to be macho and effeminate at the same time, and to want men to have different responses in different situations. There is definitely a lot of expectations women have out of men, and I have never actually been one of those type of women who are demanding like that. It is funny because guys are usually attracted to these type of women, and then later complain she is so bossy and demanding.

SweetiePie 2 years ago from Southern California, USALevel 2 Commenter

I got cut off before I added something else. I think a lot of women are yearning for this Edward type of man who write them love poetry, and who takes them to the ballet, but in every day life a lot of women do not really do those things everyday either. It is a fantasy about wanting someone from a bygone era of sorts. Women are yearning for a type of man who is not prevalent in every day society because people in general do not exclusively listen to classical music because there are many different types of music to listen to today. Back in 1914 more men would have listened to classical music because that was sold more widely. When culture in general changes, often women do not realize they have changed with it. The Twilight thing is a fantasy for a long ago era of sorts, that really only existed in the imagination.